nitro... and explosive LOGP values!

User 21b7e0228c

22-03-2009 07:43:11

Hi there,














Despised by medicinal chemists, nitro groups were typically the beasts on hand of which one explained the need for structure standardization. Since I do not have any discovery collaborations with AlQaida, nor with James Bond (I just read somewhere that in the latest movie NITROMETHANE is... the newest superexplosive - how stupid can Holywood get??), I paid little attention to these otherwise honorable groups.





Now, for historic reasons (I'm still haunted by the shadow of my organic chemistry teacher "don't expect to pass if you draw five-legged nitrogens in nitro!"), we chose the standard nitro representation with split (formal) charges, by contrast to the above-incriminated ChemAxon-preferred five-legged N version. At that point, I had checked, from the sketcher interface, that the logP/logD calculation is, indeed, independent on the representation - and it is... as soon as you stick to Tools=>Partition=>logwhatever.





Last week, I however realized (with horror!) that this ain't true for generatemd. Take, for example, TNT:





echo "CC1=C(C=C(C=C1[N]([=O])=O)[N]([=O])=O)[N]([=O])=O" | generatemd c -k LogP -D  returns a decent 2.31





echo "CC1=C(C=C(C=C1[N+]([O-])=O)[N+]([O-])=O)[N+]([O-])=O" |generatemd c -k LogP -D returns a nasty -8.84, which is a bit overdone (even for a Schwarzenegger movie).





It's less blatant with fewer nitro groups, but.. I'm now in doubt about all the QSAR models I fitted using logP as a descriptor (note - if they fitted well, with the wrong logPs, then they should be applicable with the wrong logPs as well!). Luckily I don't have so many nitros to deal with... but perhaps other groups are concerned, if generatemd confuses FORMAL and REAL charges...








Now, I don't know whether I'm doing' something wrong or whether this punishment has been inflicted on me by the Vatican, for unorthodox [uncatholic] comments - but shouldn't generatemd take care all alone of internal standardizations that are essential for property predictions?














Cheers!





Dragos

ChemAxon e08c317633

25-03-2009 11:26:54

Quote:
Now, I don't know whether I'm doing' something wrong or whether this punishment has been inflicted on me by the Vatican, for unorthodox [uncatholic] comments - but shouldn't generatemd take care all alone of internal standardizations that are essential for property predictions?






Hi Dragos,





You are right, generatemd should take care of the necessary internal standardizations. It's a bug, not a punishment (or at least not a punishment from us, we like your comments), and we will fix it soon (presumably in the 5.2.2. patch release).





Until we fix this issue, please use standardizer for standardizing your input molecules that contain nitro groups.





Standardization example:


Code:
$ echo "CC1=C(C=C(C=C1[N+]([O-])=O)[N+]([O-])=O)[N+]([O-])=O" | standardize -c "[O-:2][N+:1]=O>>[O:2]=[N:1]=O" | generatemd c -k LogP -D


2.30662





Regards,


Zsolt

User 21b7e0228c

25-03-2009 14:42:23

Hi, Zsolt,














Thanks for reassuring me that I wasn't doing anything wrong with generatemd... I'm happy to know that it's just a bug.





In fact, yesterday I had opened, for testing reasons, the access to your logD calculator - including the fatidic standardizer pipe you just mentioned - on our website (infochim.u-strasbg.fr/webserv/VSEngine.html). Is this actually politically correct, should I uninstall that model, or, on the contrary, should I advertise for it??














Too bad I can't make it to the UGM - Cheers, nevertheless!

ChemAxon e08c317633

27-03-2009 10:20:36

Hi Dragos,





Standardizing molecules before processing them is absolutely correct and recommended (it can be advertised - in fact, our marketing department should do this ;) ).  However, in generatemd it should be done automatically, so we will fix it.





Zsolt